Crypto to Cosmo - CTO031

Machine-generated from the episode audio and not hand-corrected, so names and technical terms may be imperfect. The audio is authoritative.

You know, I feel like I have some mock intro music. So do, do, do, do, do, do, do, I guess. I don't know. Everyone has music in their podcast. You're listening to episode 31 of the CTO advisor chat. I'm joined with or by Christina Murillo of many things. One, she's a VP of risk and security at a large international financial institution. And also she's very active in the women of color in tech chat community. And her story of, I think this is amazing story.

I think this is the first time I've had somebody who's been featured in Cosmo on the podcast. It is an extremely wide ranging talk and conversation. I tremendously enjoy it. I hope you do as well. All right, Christina, can you go ahead and introduce yourself to the CTO advisor audience? Hi, my name is Christina, also known as Divine Techie Girl on Twitter. And I am a New Yorker, native New Yorker. I have about 17 years or more now experience in IT, starting with networking, ending up in security where I'm at today.

That's me. So I've been wanting to have you on the podcast for quite some time. We, I think we, did we meet on Twitter initially or was it LinkedIn? I think it might've been Twitter. So we've known each other via the Twitters for a couple of years now between the Virtualized Geek podcast and now the CTO advisor podcast. I've talked about having you on the podcast. I've seen you kind of explode on Twitter. I think when we first met, you followed me and now you're like twice the number of followers I have.

And we'll get into why that is in just a second because you're doing some really great stuff in the community. I've been watching you. I really enjoyed watching you from a community perspective. But before we get into that conversation, let's talk a little bit of tech. So you're into security. How did you fall from networking to security? Very interesting. So, you know, here in New York City, like I always wanted to work within the financial industry. So like the financial tech, right?

But it was very difficult to get into. And I did, you know, I worked for consulting agencies and did, was doing the networking thing, networking administration and a junior network admin and kind of going up that ladder. And I ended up getting an opportunity in around 2006 to do, I got called for an IT security position at a reinsurance firm that also had a financial trading arm or leg. I interviewed for the position and although I had no like security background, they liked, they really liked like my active directory experience and just my understanding of like security, not security, but infrastructure and my domain experience.

And they offered me the position. So you have a big time VP of security title with a prestigious financial services firm. You have an excellent background in active directory. You now have, wow, I hate to say it, over 10 years experience in the security realm. What are some of the interesting things happening in identity management and security? Yeah, so my, so I'll tell you, my title is VP technology and information risk. I'm one of many, but you know, it is a nice title, but so I'm thankful for that, but- It is a bank.

It is a bank, right? Very popular one. But, so my specialty is identity and access management. So, you know, a lot of people think that security is like one way, so one way in, one way out, and it pretty much isn't. So there are so many, security is like its own ecosystem. And while identity and access management is pretty much focused on the information part and the securing identities within the network. So what that means is that, you know, we want to make sure that if you have access to any application, if you're an employee and have access to any application or any data within the organization, that it's on a need to know basis and that we have complete oversight of what you have access to when, while you're accessing and that it's kind of validated.

So there's a lot of things that kind of take place within that. There's an architecture aspect, the framework aspect, the policy, the governance, the strategizing, you know, it's like a whole other world, but there are so many avenues within security. And I'm actually interested in so many. So I'm still trying to learn about the different areas or the different, you know, specialties. So, you know, it's a constant growth. So much like a lot of areas in technology, you know, it's when someone says, hey, you do computers for a living or whatever, you know, they have this one thing.

I'm like, well, you're an accountant, but does that mean that, you know, you can do, that you can finance my home purchase versus knowing the ins and outs of doing corporate taxes? It's a very broad subject matter. Right. So what are the areas in security that you have a passion for? I've been looking at doing, I'm learning about penetration testing and also incident response. I'm really interested in that avenue. Like I want to know the tools or learn the tools and the processes that are kind of acted upon or that, you know, that you act upon when something happens, like when a company gets DDoS or, you know, when something gets hacked and, you know, instead of going crazy, like how are these, what is the execution process?

And also like disaster recovery, right? So in the event of a disaster, how do you get a company and environment back up and running and the users back up and running? So that's one aspect of it. I'm also interested in learning about cryptography and encryption and kind of getting my hands a little bit dirty, kind of like what security researchers do, a lot of like testing and just kind of poking around and learning about different hacks, extracting zero days and figuring out the loopholes were, right?

So it's a lot. So there's so much, there's so much. There's so much that I want to learn. I wish I could learn it all. So you're on the geeky side of security. I am so geeky. I love all that stuff. I mean, I go to these like meetups that are local. They're called crypto parties. And a friend of mine, he runs them. His name is Matthew Mitchell. He's amazing. You should have him on the podcast, but he runs them here in Harlem actually.

And I go to them and like, I learn so much, right? Cause he talks about like current events and just, he has a lot of connections, I guess. So he has like guest speakers within the security industry come and speak and tell us about different things and tools. You know, he gave us a copy of Tails and it's like, and like Tor and just like, you know, download Tor set up encrypted email. Like it's just amazing. It's so much fun.

I love the geek. So you obviously have a passion for the technology itself. One of the things, one of the interesting things that I know is maybe about a year ago going into earlier this year, you were looking at coding. Have you found that in some of the journey that you looked at and when you were looking at coding, did any of that journey help you in your day-to-day deep study of security at all? I learned how to code in college, but because I really wasn't going into that area or I didn't have aspirations of becoming a developer, I didn't really focus on that, right?

Like I was focusing on the networking and getting Microsoft certified and all that, like that path. So about two years ago I was on maternity leave and I was like, you know what? I should probably do this now because I'm crazy. And at the time I was at Fitch Ratings and I actually implemented their identity and access management program, like their application, right? So I implemented that from scratch. A lot of the automation for that application was done in Python, right?

All of the scripting was all Python. And at the time I was just like, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I had to make changes in production because I own the system. I had to automate these processes and I didn't have time to wait for the vendor or anything. So I learned how to make a change. And from then on I was just like pushing code into production and doing all that stuff. But I'm like a student of life, right?

So I love to learn. I knew what I was doing, but I wanted to understand why I was doing it in order for me to know when to apply these type of solutions to other problems. I really wanted to understand the mechanics behind it, the engineering behind it, and understand how would I be able to leverage these tools or automate other things and other applications, right? That's what kind of ventured me into taking a class at General Assembly and getting a refresher, more like the front end stuff, just to kind of start me out.

And yeah, and I still kind of play around with it a little bit. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time. But yes, I mean, venturing into the penetration testing stuff, and that's the stuff that I really wanna learn this year or deep dive into, code is a necessary part of it, and Linux. So we're entering this DevOps phase that even from a security perspective, I don't know if you use tools like Splunk or any of these analytical tools. A lot of them require some programming chops nowadays.

Have you played around with any of the analytics tools or are you specifically focused on the penetration and identity management parts of your job? No, analytics tools as well. I guess it varies from company to company. Like I really, I've seen a little bit of like Jenkins and Chef. I haven't played around with it too much. I really wanna like take a look at that very, very soon. I haven't played around with Splunk. I know that the company where I'm at now, they use a lot of PowerShell and they use other tools internally that you don't really need.

You don't really need scripting, but I don't, I mean, I play around with them sometimes, but not as much as I would like to. But yeah, I definitely think that it's necessary to learn. I mean, if you, nowadays, like you said, everything is kind of like driven by code. So you have to understand and be able to like handle your own. So that's another one of the reasons why I kind of kicked myself into that gear of like learn as much as you can and understand why you're learning it so that you know when to apply it.

Cause I ultimately, I see technology as a tool, right? So you have to understand how to solve a problem and how to apply technology to solve that problem. But you first have to understand what the problem is and how you're going to solve it. You know, in the VMware virtualization world, we have this close knit community that we mentor people and we share knowledge and we're very, we pride ourselves on the, you know, kind of the VMware virtualization community and knowledge sharing.

So, you know, we have all of these initiatives like V Brown Bag, V Sensei, that we either mentor people or we teach people about virtualization. We introduce them to the field. You have this passion about getting women of color into technology. You obviously love what you do. Tell me a little bit about how did you get, how did you get started with this and tell me a little bit about it. Yeah, so a friend of, last summer, a friend of mine, Stephanie Murillo and I, we're just having like conversations about, you know, being in tech, being from New York, being just underrepresented and just kind of like talking about the frustrations that we encounter on a day-to-day basis.

And so she brought up the idea. She was like, let's have a chat. And I was like, what kind of a chat? She's like, let's just have a Twitter chat. And I was like, okay, cool. Let's have a Twitter chat. And we both have our like, you know, people that are following, so to speak. And we kind of came together to do this and very like organically, and it just blew up, right? It blew up like in a good way.

So we were just like, what just happened? Like we were in total shock. And then we were like, okay, let's do it again in like a week or two. So we did it again. And then, you know, it just, it just grew into this like organic community slash initiative. Things happen really, really quickly. It was almost like we were thrusted into it. So Women of Color in Tech Chat is actually a grassroots initiative and a supportive community for women of color and non-binary people of color in technology.

That's people that, you know, don't identify, don't have like gender identification. But, you know, it's really just like supportive. It's like a safe space for women like her and I to, you know, convene and talk about different issues and our frustrations and just not feel alone, right? A lot of times we always hear that, you know, I'm the only black woman in the room or I'm the only, you know, Latina in the room or I'm the only, you know, the only something, right?

So sometimes you get tired of being the only and it just kind of meshed into this other thing where we started helping, right? So we started to give back and we started to, obviously because it became something so big, a lot of companies started reaching out to us directly. So we were like, okay, well, you know, well, you know, who are you first of all, right? And what are you offering? Are you hiring? Are you like, what is your agenda?

And then we did introductions. We featured some companies in like a hiring newsletter and push that out to our community and just kind of like try to get women to, you know, pay for sponsor women to go to conferences. And then the major initiative that we had was our Women of Color in Tech stock photo shoot. And the reason behind that was because of the fact that when, you know, we were putting together the site, I couldn't find any photos of women who looked like me, right?

And I, when I searched for Women of Color in Tech and Women in Tech, it was the same old generic stock photos of women playing with their cell phones or iPads. And, you know, I knew I was like, this isn't me, right? Like I've been here for 17 years and I know countless women that have been as well. So this is like the most horrible representation. And I actually got really upset that I went on a Twitter rant. You know, I have this new saying that I heard a friend of mine say a couple of months ago that it's like my new favorite thing, which is anger activates, right?

So that anger and that frustration, I kind of tweeted, oh man, I wish, you know, I don't see anything on Getty or Google. I really wish that I could just hire a photographer, get a couple of women in tech and take some photos and flood the internet. And I said it out of anger, not, and when I heard myself say it, I was like, oh, wait a minute, I could probably do this, right? Yeah, and then I just said, how am I gonna do this?

So I just started, I pitched a friend of mine who's also in tech and infrastructure and his passion is photography. So he understood what I was trying to like go for. He said, I'll do it. So like, I just like put the pedal to the metal, as they say, and I just made it happen. I did like a pilot. So I did like, you know, the first 14 women that was part of the first batch. And then we just released over 200 photos this week actually, fresh photos.

We had two photo shoots in February. So, you know, the goal is representation because, you know, to show that we matter, we are here and that it's not all about the dismal numbers, right? Sometimes it gets a little bit depressing and overwhelming when you hear, oh, only 1%, you know, Twitter only hires 1% people of color or whatever, it's just like, I'm tired of hearing that. I just wanted to take action, do something about it and contribute my percentage. And Stephanie wanted to contribute her percentage.

So we figured, hey, let's just do this together and almost solve a problem for ourselves. Cause we're like, we really just need more photos for the website, right? It's amazing how something so simple blew into something so big. So first off, I gotta confess, I've peeked into the women's chat sometimes and the women's color chat when you guys have them. And the women from all, kind of all ranges of career set and ask questions and it's, you know, something as simple as how do I learn how to code?

How do I get introduced to coding? I've seen a lot of the questions around just how do I balance learning how to code and life? You know, you mentioned that, you know, you picked up coding again during maternity leave. I think a lot of women can identify with those challenges. And then it blew up into something like that I didn't even expect. I saw the photo shoot, the pictures from the stock photos that I'll probably end up using one for the, for this podcast.

Use them all. Yeah, I'll use them all. Cause there, you guys put them out there for public consumption. I really appreciate that. Yeah. And the other thing is that you guys got picked up by Cosmo, which is not exactly the techiest of, of, of, of, of trade rags. Can you talk, let's finish up on, tell us, how did that happen? Yeah, so actually that, it was very interesting. I, I, you know, I got an email via my website and from an editor at Cosmo and she's like, you know, we're doing this feature on women in tech and I'd really like for you to be featured.

And I'm like, okay, is this about the photo shoot? And she's like, no, it's about you. You know, I really want to, I, you know, I want to hear your story. After, you know, I had to get all these approvals, obviously, cause the financial company that I work for is kind of very strict. So I had to get these approvals. It was finally approved by corporate affairs and all that stuff. And yeah, and it was a really like really smooth interview.

It was, it was over the phone and she just, she had already done her research, you know, I guess. And she like, she just, you know, asked me questions about my career, how I got started, you know, how I got introduced to computers and stuff like that. Like a little bit about my background. And then she emailed me again and she was like, I need your address. It's in print. And I was like, what is she talking about? And then she, she like couriered me the magazine.

It's, it's the April issue. And, and I started like flipping through all the pages cause she didn't bookmark it. Cause of course the, you know. Oh my God. You weren't, you weren't trying to find you at all. At all. I was really just trying to enjoy the entire magazine. Exactly. So yeah. So like, then I saw the beginning of the, of the features. And the first page is a woman who's amazing. Her name is Catherine Finney.

She runs this organization called Digital Undivided, but she's like massively successful. So I would have never in my life thought that I would be in any magazine at all, ever. But like Cosmo, like you said, it's not tech related. It's so, it's like another world. I don't think anyone would be, if you listen to this podcast, I don't think anyone would be surprised. You're extremely passionate about tech. You're extremely passionate about security. You obviously have a broad range of skill and interest in all of technology from infrastructure to security, to application development.

We talk about the need on this podcast and on my blog about the full stack engineer and having a broad, broad skillset. You obviously have a huge love for technology, but you also are infectious and you want to share that and specifically with your extended community for other women in color to feel like, hey, you know what? This Cosmo thing is people tackle their careers with the same passion that you've gone about this. And the, and giving back to the community, I think this is a great, great example of, of just, I think the beginning of things that can happen.

So where can people find, obviously we know how to find you on the Twitter, but let's repeat that. And then where can, if women listen to the podcast, which I'm sure they do have looked at the stats, where can they find women of color chat? So you can find me at, at divine techie with a Y girl. So that's C-I-V-I-N-E-T-E-C-H-Y girl. That's Twitter and women of color in tech chat. com. And if you click on the blog link, it will link you to the photos.

The photos are currently housed or the collection is currently housed in a Flickr album. Yeah. And if you look at Twitter, we were recently featured on Upworthy today, actually. So that's a new blog post. Yeah, really cool. So yeah. And I'm very nice. You are, you're very approachable and you obviously are a pleasure to talk to. I got to get my friends over at Geek Whispers to interview because I think the three of them would really. Oh, did you already do the Geek Whisper?

I did. I did last week. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, I can promise you my podcast will hit before theirs. Probably. So I can, I can taunt them that I had you on. They might've had you on first, but I released it first. Oh my God, that's hilarious. I love you guys. I love you guys all. All of you. All right. So I really appreciate finally getting you on. Thanks a lot. We'll talk to you guys next episode.

Bye. That's it for this episode of the CTO Advisor. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Christina. com forward slash podcast. You can also find the podcast in iTunes and your favorite pod catcher. Talk to you guys next episode. And I guess I need some outro music. Dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum.