Where Developers Failed with Containers
Transcript
[Music] hey how's he going to Steve Townsend from the CTO visor comm were on the show floor almost the business Hall is just a couple hundred feet from us at Interop ITX I'm joined with a DSC Phil CTO sincere application services CTO application services JPMorgan Thal and we're gonna talk to Tanner ization of monolithic applications yet again I know we talked about it with Eric right but I want to get as many perspectives on this as possible so JP I came around slowly to this whole
idea of container izing monolithic applications where we are before yeah you know what before I'm like you know what that sounds really dumb like why it works in the VM well that's a you come from a VM and well I'm an infrastructure guy so I've had a virtualization guy in a virtualization guy it has to be the Versailles geek so what's the difference there you go and then I initially said you know what containers made no sense to me then I I got to appreciate okay
Linux has some capability or lack of capability that containers takes right and that's a great thing for cloud native applications and then Netflix came out with their tightest project and wrote their journey to containers and I looked at the efficiencies that they gained from building or taking their monolithic java applications putting the inside of containers and then running it on their internal and external cloud wow that's that's great however the pushback that I've got and I'd like to talk about the pushback sure is that I
was one of those push backs you were on that push back so let's talk about you what's the pushback on it but why push back was that you know we're seeing that containers are so externally represented right so very prominent in the representation of what's happening in software architecture today and everything's gonna be microphones well micro-services yes but it's the containers so my attitude is that you know the fact that containers are prominent is a failure of software architecture mmm you shouldn't have to see the
container right the fact that the the fact that the container has become the thing right we had orchestration of containers and networking of containers is just the further demonstration that we really haven't moved very far forward and in our advancements of understanding computing from what we had in infrastructure so now we've taken infrastructure and we've taken it a step forward now that infrastructure is software-defined right um but you know to me and Simon Wardley back sis you know you know it lambda as your functions that's
the future right absolutely agree superfluous the the third were developers are just coding it there's no context of containers now they can use containers notation if they find that a container is the appropriate vehicle a medium for them to package that application and put it into a runtime execution mode that's great right but the fact is that people are focusing on that runtime they're building tooling and they're spending millions of dollars setting up and configuring their own container environment and then building two containers and building
automation rather Tanners I just wrote an e-book for no matter about the choosing the right container orchestration so again it's a failure of the software industry that the fact that this is so prominent it should be something that you don't see it so we now see it so even from the cloud native perspective your argument is that even from a cloud native perspective the container should just be a provider what is the what's the ideal abstraction then for the develop you've spent your whole decade building
applications that's right what is the ideal abstraction for the developer and what services should the infrastructure team be looking aiming to nirvana between infrastructure operations in the developer as methuselah yap platform right I mean you could think of app serve is this kind of we're on a path where we were headed right but the app server platform was really around web oriented applications right I mean you could Floyd Java but everything around the app server was really about more oriented towards something that was gonna be
delivered as a service not everything I did to talk today on cloud not everything is a service twelve factor app doesn't mean necessarily cloud cloud native it's a subset of cloud native it was designed for applications that are going to be services okay not everything is a service sometimes things are just you know a workhorse engine something is just computing something it's not exposed sometimes it's just a batch process there you know analytics I have billions of transactions that I want to do some right it's
not a service it's not exposed right and you have those and I think they often get left out in favor of everything even a micro service right you know one of the threats I wanted to start and I'm still I'm gonna start I gotta get a grenade my group maybe you feel comfortable you'd be part of it too for the for the discussion around this right what do we think about micro services that are demons mmm right because every demon process is it appropriate to put
in a to build it as a micro service I mean really that like if you this is the problem with serverless the concept of services functions it unless the trigger is the daemon itself right I have this thing that runs on a clock every so often now service is different because I hook the timer as an event into the service environment well that execute code that combined creates equivalent of your daemon exactly but the daemon architectural II is gone it's now an event based system I
have a timer I'm an event I have execution daemon process says I run ice go into a loop and I wait for a time to expire and then I do something nobody sees it the only thing you might expose us turn on and turn off right right you think of all windows services right right the only interface that the OS was you know stop restart exactly you know it did stuff right and it's out there and it ran and it know that it suited up memory
a youth resources right just waiting for something that so this cloud native this micro services and then there's you know The Container app itself right this they're they're related but they have three very different animals though so the micro service is it should we only be looking at micro services for things that are being built as a service big part of micro services is around bounded domain you know business domain context right so you know oh we do we still do that even though the domain
is you know aggregate the accounts for me or you know do a clearing a you know function or something like that you know we're a clearinghouse function so is the value there to go and build that design that and put in about in the context or is it like AIT's a daemon process let's just do it and get it done right then you have cloud native and what people think is cloud native every this is another term like DevOps and s so uh and even cloud
the ambiguity is ridiculous you never know what someone's talking about look what happened Mike Rowe soft and Amazon recently in the news you know in the news promoting that Microsoft's catching up to Amazon and cloud well yes if you if you want to realize that that's the market tagging a certain part of revenue as cloud-based but they're including office 365 in that discussion which is completely different than for us it's different for the street it's not I don't want sees people attack that oh come on
let's be real hey to the street in that context cloud they're not happy they're not selling package software anymore to us who's talking about enterprise applications that's not cloud that is hosted application whatever it's in the cloud right but so SAS has its place right but so cloud native also falls into that same camp of ambiguity for me cloud native is something very explicit and I had my definition in my slides and it's really around using and being able having an application that leverages the elasticity
of the cloud and the economics of the cloud right so JP folks wanted to reach out to you to find out more get thoughts how can he find you Twitter is a great place I'm always out there at JPMorgan Thal you're pretty hot vlog jjjp morgenthal calm I have a blog so yeah and LinkedIn as well alright and to recap it's not about the container is the will be the title of this one is not about containers not the argument about monoliths and containers irrelevant is
about the application and the ability for developers to create a value from your infrastructure we'll learn more about the CTO visor you can find me on the web the CTO visor you can find the blog there as well you can find these videos other content CTO dose calm talk to you next CTO dose
