Sanjay Poonen CTO Advisor Road Trip Interview
Transcript
(upbeat music) (engine starts) >> We're in Los Altos, which is my first time here, Sanjay. >> Great Keith. >> It's beautiful park here in Lincoln Park. >> I, when you told me let's sit down and chat together, I wanted to pick a place which, which was a nice park. A little bit of greenery, you get the surrounding traffic around you. >> I don't mean to be offensive, but Sanjay you don't have a job. >> I could sponsor still if you want me to, but you'll have to donate to a charity.
>> Yes, that would be... >> Cause I'm not working for a company, but I'd be happy to sponsor, I'll sponsor you anything you want to do. >> So I'm actually really enjoying this conversation, this opportunity for a conversation. >> It's a pleasure. I think the last time we talked it was on the cube. And I think I liked this format better. I really liked this format and I think I'm going to like this topic a little bit better. Cause we're going to talk about, I think a little bit about career, leadership, and faith.
And you're very outward about your faith and you lead a very diverse community of people. What, what was that like? >> Yeah. I mean, you know, first off I grew up in India, and in India, 85 percent of the country is Hindu, 11 percent Muslim, and then the Sikh Christians are about one or two percent. I'm one of those one or two percent. >> Wow. >> And I tell people if you've met a hundred Indians and I'm the one person who would have met who is likely Christian.
Part of my key thing is, is, to really, I think, you know, whatever your faith is, it's how you treat people. And to me, the essence of my faith is, you know, living for a higher purpose that, you know, allows me to know that certainly my destiny is not just about VMWARE or about SAP. I've got an eternal destiny and I've got a plan and a purpose for my life that goes beyond just making a lot of money or having career fulfilled. It's about the impact that I could have on people starting first with my family because those are the ones that you're going to have for your life.
Your wife, your children, and then the community you're in. It could be your neighborhood, it could be the community you interact with including work and then maybe a church or a place of worship. And all of those places are an opportunity to have an impact. And when you do that, you're living, it's not about professing. You know, this, I do have a strong faith and you'll find that I'm vocal about it, but I never want my faith to be a point of offensiveness to someone who is either Hindu or Muslim or you know, an atheist.
But I do want them to see in my actions that there's something different about this person and the reason I'm different is not because I've gone through some self-improvement program. It's because I've got a deep faith to me. And the person I worship is making me a better person everyday. >> When you have to make the decision to curl the organization or let people go, how does, how do you reconcile that with your faith? >> Wow, that's a tough one. Cause that's one of the toughest decisions one ever has to make.
Whether it's you making it or people in your organization. Keith, I think, listen, whether you read the Sermon on the Mount or not, Matthew 5, 6, 7 in our good book, there's, you know, some pearls of wisdom. And I think even people are non-Christian, Mahatma Gandhi actually said Matthew five, six, and seven were his favorite chapters of any book. There's some passages in there that you can live your life with. " So if you ask yourself, if you were the recipient of that call, myself, I've been laid off.
How would you want to treat people? And treat that person who is on the other end of it, the same way you would want to be treated. " Because you never know. Sometimes the person you're hiring can become your boss one day and you make very different. I remember this sort of statement from Warren Buffett. I'm going off Bible script now, but you know, I like the statement because it says, when he looked for people that he would hire, he looked for three qualities.
Number one was their smarts. Number two was their energy. And number three was their integrity. And they had the first two, but didn't have the third it would kill you. So I think, look, and integrity is shouldn't be just a Christian thing. It should be something of values. Now I think you kind of known by how you treat people, how you make decisions. Now, none of this means that you are this, you know, humble doormat. I mean, you know the person we worship, Jesus was a humble person.
He was a humblest person on Earth. It doesn't mean that I'm, you know, I can't follow this person and not be competitive. I mean, you know, you know me pretty well because we worked together. I want to win. I want to win every deal. I hate to to lose, I bring that passion to work every day, but that's like, when it's done. Hey, we get off the field and we can be friends with our competitors. It's not personal.
>> I've seen you congratulate competitors. Pat, when he went to Intel. Congratulated the CEO of AMB. >> So I think, listen, you can be nice, play hard, but it's how you treat people. And I think what we always have to remember is I came to this country as an immigrant. I was by all American standards poor, by Indian standards, probably middle-class or lower middle-class. So there's no way I could have afforded an education at Dartmouth. I was so fortunate to have a scholarship.
So I landed at Logan airport, 1987. I knew nothing about the culture of this country. Never really seen snow before. It was cold. But I will tell you that everything that I have been able to experience or receive, whether it was four years at Dartmouth, two years later, Harvard business school, or now, almost 30 years in the Silicon Valley is a blessing. So I look back at my roots and where I came from, I'm enormously grateful rather than arrogant. And I think what happens often when people accomplish more, I unfortunately see a lot more arrogance start to climb and they start to treat people differently and that's sad.
And my hope and prayer for myself and the people around me, I say, listen, hold me accountable to the fact that if I'm successful, I would never smell of, you know, arrogance in the way I treat other people. And you should never forget your roots. You know, because that same person who came here at 17 years old, who knew nothing is in some senses who I still am. I need to be intellectually curious. So I think those are all the principles by which you live by.
I think the other parts that to me are really rewarding and redeeming about my faith is how do you handle a crisis and challenge, right? Prayer and reading the words are a deep part of my life. But I know I can go to God in prayer. I know that I can depend on someone who is my friend. And even if the whole world lets me down, I've got a friend. >> Right. >> And that to me, is that personal relationship, you know, with someone that you believe has kind of your back and got an eternal plan for you.
It's helped me through the tough times. I think that's kind of it. So it's almost day-to-day living by it. And then I would say the other thing that's really, you know, helped me, it's certainly, more recently is how do you live every day trying to be a blessing to one other person. You know, I've always believed that be better to give than receive and the world is a happier place when you're a giver rather than a taker. And you know, if there's some small way by which you can be a blessing to somebody else during that, not because you're keeping tabs of it, but just because you want to give.
I think the world's a happier place. " Like listen, I don't need you to repay me, turn that blessing to somebody else. So it's routine, routinely I'll be helping somebody in some fashion. It might be career advice or maybe in some places it's a philanthropic gesture. " Like listen, I don't want you to repay me. I want you to turn around and do this to somebody else who's in need. >> So, you know, a lot of times Sanjay, people can look at someone who's had your role, has had your success.
" And you know, they can have a tendency of judging. I, I've, I've criticized VMWARE about the lack of diversity. You're a man in powerful positions. But even that, in that you have your limits, you can't change societal issues. You can impact them, but you can't change them. How do you be sound in, even with the criticism that you know, that, you know, you're comfortable, that you've done what you can? >> I mean, first, by realizing that if someone's criticizing you, they may have a point.
So I, I never want to be thick skinned enough where, whether it's a peer, whether it's someone below you especially. Certainly people above you, you will listen to criticism because they feel entitled to give you an opinion, but people below you, your peers may be intimidated as you go higher, again. So if someone's criticizing, I want to hear it. I mean, I actually want to hear all of my worst critiques' perspective on me, cause it's good to know that. And then if there's an element of truth to it, I need to work on that.
So first a sense of, and you have to work on that harder the higher you go up because you start to believe your own, you know- >> Your own press. Yeah it is, it's easy to do, easy. >> And it's easy to just kind of get lost in that thinking, "Oh, I'm great for XYZ reason" until someone pops a balloon. And I found that in my own experience, God pops my balloon whenever I think I'm like, up here. " So that's really good.
And you know, there's a, there's a great verse that I remember 1 Peter 5:5, God gives grace to the humble and he resists the proud. So I would say the first thing I want when people are critiquing or stuff is to listen, hear it, and see if there's an element of truth to it. If there isn't, if it's a completely false claim and it's like, you know, okay, I'm not going to react to it. Of course, if they're, if they're criticizing my character and I'm completely innocent, I believe I will, I should stand up for asserting the fact that that's wrong.
But then, when it comes to the very complex topics you talked about like, how do you solve systemic racism in this country? I mean, both of us are people of color. You've probably experienced it. I've experienced it. You grew up in this country, so maybe experienced it more than I did, but I experienced when I got here. And it may not be as much as in California, but in some parts of it, it is there are parts of it here, but in other parts of the country is, can I solve that in society?
No, I'm not called to be a Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, or Mahatma Gandhi. But I got to make sure in SAP or VMWARE, where I was senior executives, there's no smell of that in my organization and if I'm the leader in the company, of the whole company. So if I sense that there were elements of systemic racism, I wanted to be the ally of that, that minority community, you know, whatever minority. Could have been African-American, Hispanic or it could be any other minority community.
S. So I think that, listen, you, when you take that mentality, again, coming back to do unto others, as you want done to you. You pick your sphere of influence where you can have influence on. And you say, listen, that is the sphere that I have been called to try and have an impact in. And for me it was, it certainly started from my family. Then the community I work in and to the extent that I... " Whether it's within the company or other peers of mine in the industry.
I have very large Rolodex of friends and executives in this industry, and I ask them routinely. " from a quick phone call. And I love learning from community speak of experts, where from the counsel of many there's often wisdom. And that's, that's certainly helped me. But I will fully admit that I'm still making mistakes. And you know, when you have that sort of sense of, you know, growth mindset, I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm learning. There's willingness in these areas where it's not all black and white.
How do you navigate the gray and still make sure that you're making the world a better place? Whether it's the company you're working, your family, or your community. >> Well Sanjay, I really appreciate you taking the time out. This has been Sanjay Poonen, unfiltered. No AR, no PR, no marketing, just two Christians getting together in a park, in a beautiful. Part of the conversation, talking about family, life, career, what's next. And hopefully it'll, it'll be somewhere where you can- >> Where are we going to do the next one?
Chicago? >> Yeah, no. Let's not do it, if we do it in Chicago, let's just make sure it's not cold because I'm not even going to be in Chicago when it's cold. >> The spring and the summer in Chicago are beautiful. >> Beautiful, beautiful. >> Maybe right on the lake. I don't know. I can imagine a picturesque spot. >> There's plenty of places to, that I can take you to. Chicago has plenty of places. >> Well, Keith, let me just say a sentence or two, cause you've been very kind.
I've really appreciated and for all of the viewers there. You're authenticity. You're authentic. You are, you're very smart. I mean, that's, that's been in all of the stuff. The blogs, you put out, things that you're (indistinct) industry. Whenever you're interviewing me, the questions were smart, but also your dialogue, your blogs. But you're authentic and that's rare in this industry. Keep it going. I wish you all the best. And your wife, I like the fact that you're doing these, you know, 13 city tours.
I have a small little idea. I was thinking of taking my kids to go to all the different baseball games and these various different cities so maybe that's the next thing we do together. >> That'd be awesome, to I'm assuming you're a Giants fan. I'm a Sox fan- >> World Series baby- >> and a White Sox fan. We have ours in 2005. Maybe the next time we get together, it will be Giants- >> That would be great. >> and Sox World Series.
>> Thank you so much. >> You want to learn more about the CTO advisor? You can follow me on the web @CTOadvisor is the Twitter handle. com/road-trip to find out where we gone, where we'll be. Talk to you next CTO dose.
