Independent AWS ReInvent Analysis - Developers vs. Operations

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I'm Bobby Allen CTO for cloud general hosting the CTL DOS live from reinvented Vegas interesting conversation on deck Gina Rosenthal from digital sunshine demonic orbit kubernetes expert from weave works don't be fooled by their mire manner predicaments right here they're about to fight it out because we've got an interesting conversation on enterprise developers culture technology tools and hands mitts we're gonna hash out all the things that eighty Jesse talked about yesterday tune in tune in for this conversation should I say fight I'm going to be

whole / referee as they battle it out tune in you want to listen in and check this out [Music] and so one of the things that I'm really thankful about the Keith has given a platform for some divorce some diverse voices in technology having a woman in two black men that are knee-deep in technology but you're going to see that there are also some diverse ideas that are going to happen on the program today so we had three hours of keynote yesterday from Andy Jesse from

here reinvent 2019 and what I'd love to give you all the wide berth to talk about Gina will have you go first what are you most excited about out of that three hour keynote and then what are you most skeptical about maybe too good to be true well the most exciting I think it is just the energy really honestly around everything it it's really strange being in the sands Convention Center because I have been here for EMC world for Delian SeaWorld and of course VM worlds

down the road always but to be in this particular place and have that energy is very it's kind of interesting I guess I'm probably just very general like it there were several announcements that happened where I didn't see that there were anything brand new there's a lot of marketing sizzle I think really around the the chips announcement on the new chips at their building that's a marketing sizzle but it's the chip companies like what I said on my was like chip companies just don't bring the

newfangled sizzle but they are doing really amazing cool things that just doesn't get out there as much so kind of question marks in my head is like is this anything new or just what everybody else is doing they're just selling it better I agree I felt like there were a lot of kind of new ish things a lot of things that had already been pretty announced on the blog they just kind of package it all together to roll with that story so domani from your perspective

what did you like that you heard yesterday what do you feel like it's too good to be true you want to scratch the paint on what do you think I'm really excited about kubernetes I like the the far gig on UK s announcement I think and he doubled down that we need executive sponsorship I think he on that we don't want paralysis by analysis that you need to jump in and get started and I think in order to have that happen you need to want the

executive sponsorship and then you need to jump in I don't think that it happens without the culture around it right we have a diverse panel when we speak about culture today I think it's necessarily around developers mm-hmm right developers are King and we have to pay attention to developers and period secondarily african-americans represent 2 percent of the population in tech that's atrocious needs to change agree women represent 20% atrocious needs to change greed so across the board they needs to be the strategy and and I

think Andy you know challenged some executives and elected he did he did anything that felt too good to be true yesterday I've got a lot of notes I don't know if there's anything I was too good to be true you know I don't know too much about the chips but I was fascinated by the numbers right so I was sitting who's I sitting next to I forget about this name that sit next to me but he opened up his laptop right away when the children Osmond

was happening and it says something like 90 percent more efficiency able to sell less cost and he cooked he picked it up and he looked and he said Wow you know and he knew the numbers of what Intel was doing well arm was doing n the numbers that Amazon announced was drastic so for me to see that type of reaction for someone who's knee-deep from a chip perspective was impressive so I want to poke some holes and I want you all to kind of attack this

so in the enterprise we always hear the phrase people process technology all the time and I want to start to change that I think it should be people process product or people process problem so if I'm gonna be a little controversial I'll say why should I care about all the announcements that happened yesterday is just technology what is the problem that we're trying to solve more flops more ec2 instances what does that actually mean for the business why should I care if I'm an executive that's

really angry with you I I would almost feel like with applications so I guess devs are very very important they build our applications in the applique should be built around a business problem mm-hmm but then somebody has to nail that to the ground if you give that to Amazon to do as a sauce provider you're trusting them to have things available to you that will match the application that not just a business problem and they take care of that but IT ops people also can do

that on their own and I think what we're moving into is this ability to stitch the two together where I don't if I have a problem you get to get the dev and ops people truly the ITIL people together not just enough sorry but the entire office team together here's my problem you guys work it out where it's going to be hosted where it needs to move what happens how do we secure it how do we replicate it how do we make sure it's 1,000% there

all the time and that's an ongoing thing with how I solve that problem with technology not just the application development they're actually the hosting of the application where is the best place for that to be but who decides that who's the decision maker on the best place to put I would think the application owner are the owner of the problem yeah you tell me this is the problem the application is gonna go get the application is gonna go get built and this person owns the entire

application they get to this okay come on poke holes in that go okay where do I start so first let me correct you with one thing I don't think that Amazon is a SAS provider the cloud is broken up into three parts SAS pads and iOS Amazon is the iodized infrastructure as a service I think let's start there and then understand that the developer is not making decisions developers just want to write code they don't want to touch the Apple they don't want to care about

those things they just want to work on things that above the value on all right so the developers shouldn't care where advanced give it over to the they write code check hold done that's it is not it's not the developers the developers shouldn't care so it should be abstracted away from the developer exactly I mean I agree with you I think you're 1,000% right in that but I think the application owner is not necessarily a developer oh no I think the application owner should say I

want my application to do this to solve my problem developers figure out how to make it do that but then the IT the ops person are the people that make sure below the line is happening and it's there and the devs never have to worry about shims you and I hope want one on devs or versus ops I think we should bring I literally think we should bring everybody together to work together well you just stated that it was that they should give it to ops

so that that assumes that we're still working in a waterfall methodology and that devs are throwing their software over the fence to ops well no what I'm trying to say I think that happens more often than I still what I'm saying is I think that those I feel like I feel like the whole idea of DevOps was basically I'm gonna be super controversial just to get an SRE in there get a specialized admin in there they can figure out how to manage not only the containers

in an architecture but also manage whatever the ayahs provider or passer writer presents to them make sure we have the right VM is the right storage the right speed is everything else it's still it I think it's wider than the golf the dev obstacles that existed when I was an ops person even further I think we have to get rid of this divide there has to be if this is the application solving the problem everybody has to be together what do you mean so that you

don't ever have to see below the line how do I support you just give you this area to go create how do I do that I will know better about where to put it where to nail it down if you explain to me what you're doing and writing to solve this problem I think everybody should be together in one org I think we're gonna have to kind of back up a little bit in terms of our father words I mean we could go on I think

we can get you all might be coming to blows on my actually really one thing out there out there though doesn't this ultimately still go back to executive just like Andy talked about yesterday you've got to have somebody with the Charter the mandate the authority to drive it but the challenge is a lot of these executives don't have the content matter expertise to know what did the material decisions to make her that right what Elizabeth I'll leave you two things right Andy Jesse brought two CEOs

on stage he brought on Brett Shafer of Cerner he brought on goldman sachs right i'm CEO of goldman sachs and what was interesting is that the vendor that was left out that helped both of those customers was pivotal labs right the fact that it matter is that there was a leadership change from the top down from both of those organizations however there was a huge cultural shift that happened in both of those organizations to allow those companies to move that fast Goldman Sachs has 9,000 developers

does a major shift that needs to happen pivotal labs came in and said hey you can't set up you you got to do pair programming and you can't set up the desk this way you have to operate differently there needs to be consistency we need to see how they be able to get that cold through production we need to deliver software quickly so you actually what it's about it's about the experience it's all about the experience it's about the customer experience is about the developer experience

as much employee experience everything is centered around the experience and it starts from the top but you also need a ground-up strategy and your developers are on the ground and you've got to make them happy that's fair Dan final word what do you think what do you take away if someone wasn't here at the conference to never allow what would you want them to go home with what's after the first day all the announcements packing ten pounds things and three pound bag as we talked about

well what would you want someone to take away from this I think the big thing is that the and he ended up he did say this on the first day it's all about digital transformation and I've been in product marketing for several years and I've written lots of digital transformation marketing things and I've never thought it's realer than now it is the the the ring of the cloud in general and is just technology technology as at a place where we can change at all I think

your comments on making the developers happy and making I think the idea was people happy to making everybody in the org be able to do their job takes not just it takes from the top vision more than anything that this transformation has happened we're in the midst of it we got to go and now that this was a great as far as announcement iment Amazon has produced so much content there's so much to go home and pour over and read but it's pretty obvious that is

here and it'll be interesting to see how the other cloud vendors and how the on-prem vendors kind of respond and interact with all of this excellent Gina domani thank you so much we may have to keep this going off-camera Gina tell people how they can find you online you can find me the best place is Twitter GMI in chaos okay domani how can they can everything damar new Korbin on linkedin demonic orbit on twitter excellent thank you for listening into our conversation you're here to hear

first kind of some of the hot takes from what happened and it reinvents so far tune in next time for the next CTO dose understand here how to keep a pulse on what's happening intact thank you